Did you transfer 2 or 3 embryos?

[SliceofLime2]

Given your update I'd like to say I wouldn't do it, but honestly if it got down to my IPs last 3 embryos and I had that conversation with the RE I probably would. I know people transfer 3+ embryos all the time, but I guess it all really depends on the grade of the embies and you won't know that until they thaw. All I can say is I don't envy you. I used to have a completely different viewpoint on this before working with IPs who had only a few embies left.

[proudmomnsurro]

Ok,

So now I'm totally not sure what to do....
I just talked to the RE yesterday and explained the situation to her and she said that she felt very comfortable transferring the 3 day embryos. She said that if they were blasts then she would never do it, but since they are only cleaved embryos she said that the chance of triplets is less the 5%.
My IPs originally had 12 embryos to start they are down to the last three, out of the nine that have been transferred only 2 have resulted in live pregnancies, and those twins were in the same straw.
I am so torn on what to do. Part of me just wants to do all three and let the good Lord decide what He wants me to have, and another part of me is so scared of triplets. My husband is totally on board for doing all three, and he says that even if I did have trips, it would only be temporary and we would get through it.
I just dont know....

5% is a risk I would never take. Ever. I have actually ended matches before because when it came down to it they wanted to transfer more than i was comfortable with. But it's MY job as the carrier to be the non emotional one because it's not my children, my future, my hopes and dreams. I think during this process sometimes as carriers we get too emotionally wrapped up in it. I know that sounds weird, but it's a fine line we walk. We need to be the ones who during this time can have more of a business like mindframe, or more of a nurses attitude. Look at the risks (not just the fear of bedrest, but actual numbers about HOM, preterm labor, death ratios, etc) and figure out how the risks outweigh the benefits of slowing down and transfering less. If i were doing this to conceive my own children I would do the same thing. And im not saying we have to be cold and calculated, i just think it helps for us to be able to take a step back and look at the science and medical aspect of it and let our IPs handle the emotional aspects of it.

Personally, it's my job to birth a live healthy baby. If i were to get too emotional and too wrapped up in just wanting to make it work, it would be time for me to take a step backwards. I'd rather cycle three times and go through all those weeks of shots and three separate transfers and meds to deliver one healthy babe. No one can guarantee a healthy pregnancy or delivery, but let's be honest . . . the risks start going up with each baby we add inside our womb. Not just to our bodies but to the babies themselves. *IF* i ever did GS again, i'd only agree to SET.

[Pixiechick]

I transferred 3 once and none took. Transferred 2 and got one. I won't transfer but 1 this time and my IPs agree.

[gingersnap]

Thank you girls so much for your replies.....

I am going to talk to the doctor and see the grade of the embryos. If they are all high quality, top notch embys, I probably wont. But based on the fact that they are from a 34 year old donor, there have only been 2 embryos normal out of 9, and the fact that based on 494 transfers last year at my clinic, only 3.19% where triplets on a fresh cycle. I am feeling that the chance of triplets are pretty low. I would welcome twins, that would not be a problem. I have heard both sides of the story with triplets. Some are horror stories and some are not so bad. I have a couple friends carry triplets and they did fine. I am pretty tall 5'8 135 lbs and run and work out every day. I feel that if I did carry triplets, my body could handle it. Do, I want to carry triplets? NO. Could I carry triplets? Yes. I probably could. If for some reason something went wrong and my health was failing and we had to terminate (God forbid) then that would have to be done.
Boston Baked Bean-Yes, in reply to the previous comment, God does give us a brain for reasoning and making choices. But saying that you surrender your plan to Him and having faith that He will not give you more than you can handle is NOT a cop out. Handing the situation over to a Higher Power greater than yourself and knowing that He has been at the helm of this whole journey is something that I can take great confidence in and don't see it as a form of weakness. I will allow it to be a testimony of sometimes when I don't see the whole picture, God does. When we scrutinize and live in fear of the "what ifs" we can lose sight of the true plans and miraculous blessings that are in store for our lives. My motto "Go big or go home!" I just now may be very big in my home. lol!

Thank you again for all the responses. You have all been a terrific support!

**! Happy 4th of July!**

[cousinmommy]

Thank you girls so much for your replies.....

I am going to talk to the doctor and see the grade of the embryos. If they are all high quality, top notch embys, I probably wont. But based on the fact that they are from a 34 year old donor, there have only been 2 embryos normal out of 9, and the fact that based on 494 transfers last year at my clinic, only 3.19% where triplets on a fresh cycle. I am feeling that the chance of triplets are pretty low. I would welcome twins, that would not be a problem. I have heard both sides of the story with triplets. Some are horror stories and some are not so bad. I have a couple friends carry triplets and they did fine. I am pretty tall 5'8 135 lbs and run and work out every day. I feel that if I did carry triplets, my body could handle it. Do, I want to carry triplets? NO. Could I carry triplets? Yes. I probably could. If for some reason something went wrong and my health was failing and we had to terminate (God forbid) then that would have to be done.
Boston Baked Bean-Yes, in reply to the previous comment, God does give us a brain for reasoning and making choices. But saying that you surrender your plan to Him and having faith that He will not give you more than you can handle is NOT a cop out. Handing the situation over to a Higher Power greater than yourself and knowing that He has been at the helm of this whole journey is something that I can take great confidence in and don't see it as a form of weakness. I will allow it to be a testimony of sometimes when I don't see the whole picture, God does. When we scrutinize and live in fear of the "what ifs" we can lose sight of the true plans and miraculous blessings that are in store for our lives. My motto "Go big or go home!" I just now may be very big in my home. lol!

Thank you again for all the responses. You have all been a terrific support!

**! Happy 4th of July!**

To the first part I bolded - Your size means nothing with the ability to carry. Everyone knows that but when they try to make the arguement that it wouldn't be a big deal to carry multiples (or HOMs) they often resort to their own perceived ability to do it better than others based on size/height. I've seen that done on here many times. I've also seen tiny women carry twins quite well while taller larger women have lots of problems and very early delivery. Please don't let something like your height be a deciding factor.

To the second bolded part - Really???? This isn't gambling, making plays in a football game, or performing on stage. This is bringing helpless fragile life into the world that is dependent upon us to be responsible. I doubt anyone that has spent weeks in the NICU with their tiny little babies lives in the balance thinks that's a go big or go home kind of moment.

Also, I don't live my life in fear of the "what-ifs" as most here probably don't. I consider it a way using logic and reason. We do give those "what-ifs" as examples because it is a way of planning and preparing for that big picture.

FWIW - My nephew and his wife conceived twins naturally. They lost those twins at 22 weeks after a tough pregnancy. As it turns out the twins were trips but one didn't develop properly and after so many weeks stopped growing. The only early u/s she had they didn't catch the third one. That one is probably what caused the problems and the sudden early labor resulting in the loss of the other two. The thing is they didn't have a choice in how many they conceived or carried in order to make the best possible situation. This happened on its own. Twins is risky enough. I'm very passionate about how much more risk there is with trips.

[dahlia]

Boston Baked Bean-Yes, in reply to the previous comment, God does give us a brain for reasoning and making choices. But saying that you surrender your plan to Him and having faith that He will not give you more than you can handle is NOT a cop out. Handing the situation over to a Higher Power greater than yourself and knowing that He has been at the helm of this whole journey is something that I can take great confidence in and don't see it as a form of weakness. I will allow it to be a testimony of sometimes when I don't see the whole picture, God does. When we scrutinize and live in fear of the "what ifs" we can lose sight of the true plans and miraculous blessings that are in store for our lives. My motto "Go big or go home!" I just now may be very big in my home. lol!

I'm going to apologize up front for the bluntness of my response, but I'm not sure how to say it in a sugar-coated way.

Your logic here terrifies me, and you need to realize that this logic may be offensive to the IMs that we have here on this board, along with the surrogates who have endured miscarriages and stillbirths. If we all trust god and god will make all things right, then surrogates wouldn't exist and no one would lose a baby.

Ask every surrogate here and they will tell you that you can't look at the statistics reported by clinics. First of all, it's not a clear-cut science when you're comparing with surrogates. Those statistics include all patients who suffer from infertility. In theory, a surrogate is more likely to have optimal conditions for embryo transfer success. I would bet money that it's more likely a surrogate gets pregnant with all embryos transferred than the average person going through infertility treatments.

People have transferred terrible embryos and had success, and people have transferred perfect embryos and had failure. There is absolutely NO statistic that can accurately tell you where you will land in that. If you want to bury yourself in some statistical information, look up the difference in success rates between successful embryo transfer with 1 vs. 2 embryos, and then the incidence of multiples. Research currently is leaning toward transferring one embryo because the increased chances of getting pregnant with more than one embryo is slight compared with the chance of getting pregnant with multiples. Another way of putting it-- transferring more than one does not improve your chances of success much, but it increases your chances of multiples by a LOT.

Now, I'm not saying go single embryo transfer no matter what, but what I AM saying is there is massive recklessness in your "go big or go home" logic. Do you know that triplets on average are born around 32 weeks? That's the average. That means many are born well before that point. Every baby, whether singleton, twin, or triplet, NEEDS to gestate to FULL TERM. That, depending on your source, is at least 38 weeks. Why set those precious little angels up for those odds? This isn't only about your health. This isn't just about whether you feel like you can handle it. BTW, I could dig up and link dozens of threads where surrogates felt they could handle a pregnancy, but then that pregnancy progressed or ended in disaster--none of us goes into this thinking we can't handle the pregnancy we face.

This is about helping IPs have babies. HEALTHY babies. We create the healthiest environment possible to help them reach the dream of parenthood. Transferring 3 embryos because you feel like you can handle it (height is no indication, btw) and because god wont give you more than you can handle is NOT creating the healthiest environment possible. It is setting those fragile embryos up for pre-term birth and severe complication before they even have a chance to thrive.

No, not all triplet pregnancies end in disaster. A lot don't end in disaster. But when they do, it is catastrophic. The kind of catastrophic that leads to the surrogate having a lifetime of grief, and the kind of catastrophic that leads to terrifying, long-term NICU stays, life-long medical treatments for chronic conditions, and sometimes, death.

No one goes into it thinking this will happen to them. Why increase the odds of it, though? I hope that this comes across as respectful, because I do not mean to disrespect you, or your faith. I find faith to be a beautiful thing usually. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around applying faith in certain circumstances. Taking on certain risks will present different consequences. These consequences are so, so steep, and you need to consider them fully.

If you have a few hours one day, so a good search here on SMO and read about how other HOMs journeys have gone. Read about the twin journeys as well. Maybe others might chime in and share threads to the more notable losses and complications. I'm starving and need to end my rambling narrative.

[gingersnap]

Ok, putting faith and mottos aside (which I apologize if I scared anyone, I was lightheartedly joking, but now realize this is not a joking matter) you all have made very valid points. I am not saying that I am definitely going to put in three embryos. I said I am going to check the quality of the embryos and if two are fair and one is poor, chances are I will transfer all three. If we get there and all three are perfect examples of what every embryo should look like I will only do two. I was the one who initially only wanted two. But based on this being the last straw from the 12 (probably the lowest quality out of the four straws) I will have to decide on the transfer date what I will feel comfortable doing. My IM is thrilled beyond belief at the fact that I am willing to possibly transfer three. She told me that they understand the risks and the twins that they had were born premature, so they are not new to the NICU and understand the consequences.
When I found out the egg donor was 33 years old that also really made me feel more comfortable. I was reading Dr. Sher's comment and that women in their 30's have 65-70% of their EMBRYOS (not eggs) chromosomolly incompetent. So, if you start with 12 embryos, it would be reasonable to expect about three to four healthy embryos to transfer.
But anyways, all three may not even make the thaw and then I wont even have to worry about it.
Thanks again for all the feedback. I guess it just really depends on each persons personal experience and what they are willing to handle, quality of the embryos, and the intended parents wishes.

[dahlia]

Ginger, I appreciate you for reading my post without getting upset. I don't envy the position you are in now. It's hard when you feel the excitement and hopes of your IPs when it goes in contradiction with your own comfort zone. My hope for you is that a clear, and optimal solution presents itself and that afterward you are left with a feeling of satisfaction and joy that the right choice was made and brought you success. Best wishes to you

[gingersnap]

Ginger, I appreciate you for reading my post without getting upset. I don't envy the position you are in now. It's hard when you feel the excitement and hopes of your IPs when it goes in contradiction with your own comfort zone. My hope for you is that a clear, and optimal solution presents itself and that afterward you are left with a feeling of satisfaction and joy that the right choice was made and brought you success. Best wishes to you

Thank you SO much. That really means alot to me. This is a hard place to be and I dont think I will know for sure what will happen until the morning of the transfer. But I do know that I have the power to say yes or no, and i'm not afraid to say either.
This journey has been interesting. Between the chemical pregnancy hoping for it to be viable, and planning on transferring two, and now the possibility of the third. Things don't always go as planned. So many variables....

[Lowboy Love]

Thank you SO much. That really means alot to me. This is a hard place to be and I dont think I will know for sure what will happen until the morning of the transfer. But I do know that I have the power to say yes or no, and i'm not afraid to say either.
This journey has been interesting. Between the chemical pregnancy hoping for it to be viable, and planning on transferring two, and now the possibility of the third. Things don't always go as planned. So many variables....

Personally, you sound like you talked yourself in to doing what your IPs want. I hope that turns out in your best interest, and your family. I know it's hard to stand up against the pressure, been there and caved myself. But I learned one heck of a lesson, that hurt me and my family. I hope you don't regret anything.

[Babybug]

Pardon me, I didn't read all of this, but can't they refreeze? My IPs had 4 left, they thawed all four, picked the nicest one and refroze the rest. I'm sorry if you already answered that... but it really seems silly to be in such a pickle when they should be able to freeze whichever one(s) you don't use. If they were frozen the "old" way, you are right, they may not make the thaw and make your choice an easier one. Good luck... try really hard not to run with your emotions and the "what ifs" here, transfer what you are willing to carry/risk. I know it's difficult.

[gingersnap]

Personally, you sound like you talked yourself in to doing what your IPs want. I hope that turns out in your best interest, and your family. I know it's hard to stand up against the pressure, been there and caved myself. But I learned one heck of a lesson, that hurt me and my family. I hope you don't regret anything.

I wouldn't say I have talked myself into what the IPs want.... More like I have re-evaluated the situation, found out some important facts on the embryo quality and egg donor, taken the advice of the doctor, and this being my IPs last three embryos am willing to take the "less than 2% chance of triplets."

I was just asking for insight on transferring two versus three embryos from surrogates on this board who have been around the block a time or two. I have since learned that there is no magic number and every surrogate has to make that personal decision on her own. I have decided that my number for this next transfer is going to be three based on facts, NOT on emotion.

[alexandchase]

I just want to say and thank you for this post..I think I am going to find myself in your same shoes and am going to have this same talk myself with my IP's.

I hope all ends in the way that is best for you and your Ip's. Please keep us updated as I know I will be looking for your outcome.

Good Luck

[gingersnap]

I just want to say and thank you for this post..I think I am going to find myself in your same shoes and am going to have this same talk myself with my IP's.

I hope all ends in the way that is best for you and your Ip's. Please keep us updated as I know I will be looking for your outcome.

Good Luck

Hello!
Thank you so much alexandchase for your well-wishes! I wish you the very best in your journey too. It is definitely not an easy place to be, but I believe 3 embryos are best for some people and 2 are better for others. I hope you are able to find out all the facts and information and make a choice that works out for you and your IPs.
I will definitely keep you updated on my results and let you know how it goes. I feel confident and at peace with my decision, and I hope you do the same. Keep me updated on your journey as well!

[telemetrynurse]

I wouldn't say I have talked myself into what the IPs want.... More like I have re-evaluated the situation, found out some important facts on the embryo quality and egg donor, taken the advice of the doctor, and this being my IPs last three embryos am willing to take the "less than 2% chance of triplets."

I was just asking for insight on transferring two versus three embryos from surrogates on this board who have been around the block a time or two. I have since learned that there is no magic number and every surrogate has to make that personal decision on her own. I have decided that my number for this next transfer is going to be three based on facts, NOT on emotion.

Your IP's are lucky to have found you! It is obvious that you care a great deal and are putting much thought into your decision.

I wish you and the IP's a successful and blessed pregnancy!

[gingersnap]

Your IP's are lucky to have found you! It is obvious that you care a great deal and are putting much thought into your decision.

I wish you and the IP's a successful and blessed pregnancy!

Thanks telemetrynurse. I wish the same to you as well!